043: Hannibal 2x13 "Mizumono" - It Was Weirdly Upsetting

SPOILERS FOR THE HANNIBAL SEASON 2 FINALE

In this episode:

• Cleolinda Jones returns!
• ...so we can all sob together.
• Discussion of Hannibal 2x13 "Mizumono," including why, God, why.
• From Fio: "So much of this episode is just us commiserating via emotional vomit cleansing."
• Blood. So much blood.
• srsly why.
• what's even the point of description bullets.
• Life advice: If you hear the theremin, just stay downstairs.
• The AV Club Interview with Bryan Fuller for "Mizumono" 
• This is My Design eyeshadow collection from Aromaleigh
• As we said on the episode: Between now and the fall, we'll be covering general horror topics (and possibly more movies!). Let us know here or through one of the ways listed in our sidebar if there's anything in particular you want us to discuss.  
• You can expect the next episode of A Matter of Taste in two weeks' time on Thursday, June 12. Prospective topic: Horror video games.

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• The song from Inception is "Non, je ne regrette rien" by Édith Piaf
• "Dear Sister," the SNL (Lonely Island) sketch I reference which features "Hide and Seek" by Imogen Heap
• Despite us backtracking through the episode several times, we managed to completely gloss over the scene between Bella and Hannibal this episode where they talk about forgiveness. Will you forgive us?
• Highlights from Fio's timestamps:
• 19:46 - “At the Breakfast Dinner Table” is like a lighthearted palate cleanser version of our podcast
• 46:26 - Price and Zeller’s Bed and Breakfast spin off is my dearest dream and I refuse to let it die.
• 48:03 - Hah hah. Yes, fifteen other serial killers living in Baltimore who are not me, not at all even a little bit in any way shape or form. Hah hah. Cleo, you kidder, you slay me, which is entirely different from the way that I, a normal human creature, interact with other people. Hah.

Music:

• Opening: "Sirens - Air Raid Siren - CU - Rise, Steady, Fall"- SoundDogs.com
• Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
• Outro: "Mosquito Song" - Queens of the Stone Age | YouTube | iTunes |

(Header image taken from this post: http://watson-sighs-and-tuts.tumblr.com/post/86707139009/watching-hannibal-finale-in-a-nutshell)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT043/AMOT043.mp3

042: Hannibal 2x12 "Tome-Wan" - A Matter of Interpretation

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x12, as well as MAJOR SPOILERS for the Hannibal novel/movie.

In this episode:

• Discussion of Hannibal 2x12 "Tome-Wan," including the most horrific thing we've ever seen, ever, Hannibal's amazing reaction to Mason trouncing around his office with an utter lack of respect, the plot points and details cherry-picked from Thomas Harris' Hannibal, Bedelia's return, and where we think things might go in the finale. 
• We dive right into the super-upsettingness of the Mason scene, the uncanny valley (drink) nature of his mask, and how we can see the Vergers featuring into the rest of the series.
• How much of the books/movies the show is burning this early in its run, so where do we go from here? (drink)
• C'MON, STEVE LIGHTFOOT. GIVE US A FLASHBACK. PRETTY PLEASE WITH PEOPLE SUGAR ON TOP.
• Who will live? Who will die? How fucked up will it really be?
• If you're trying to minimize your spoilers for future storylines, the biggest spoilers for the Hannibal novel/movie begin around the 54:00 mark.
• Next week: A special guest will be joining us for the finale! Hint: It's Cleo. ...I may not entirely understand the whole concept of "hints."

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• Made it through the whole episode without making a Hitchhiker's Guide reference. I'm...slightly disappointed in ourselves.
• Bryan Fuller's AV Club interview on this episode. Just as fair warning: He makes a few vague comments about the season finale near the end. 
• The Wikipedia article for the novel Bedelia by Vera Caspary 
• The point I think I was trying to make RE: Bedelia and Hannibal's role reversal as patient and psychiatrist, and what Fio basically comes to on the podcast: The way she characterizes her relationship with Hannibal draws connections to Randall Tier, Margot Verger, and of course Will, and back to the major themes of Shiizakana in general. That's where I'm getting this whole "teacher/acolyte" idea from. Bedelia, like Randall, Margot, and Will seems to have at one time been one of Hannibal's "students"--a "student of predators," as Will comments about Randall. Interestingly, it also possibly casts Will's bringing up Bedelia in the whole "How many are there?" conversation in Shiizakana in an entirely new light.
• You in danger, girl. (As if anyone who's spent a modicum of time on the Interwebs needs a link.)
• The production still of Bedelia from the season finale that I bring up. EDIT: As an anonymous Tumblr user brought up, the post actually says 113, not 213, meaning it's from Savoureux, not Mizumono. Doesn't mean she can't be in the finale, but yeah. My mistake, and my most sincere apologies.
• Highlights from Fio's timestamps:
• 9:55 - I’m stumbling over my words a lot around here, care to clean this up and make me not sound like an idiot? I know it’s a tall order, but I trust you, Ian. I trust your judgement. I trust your ability to judge the heat and texture of a poorly cooked ravioli and I trust that you would stop a well meaning manticore from losing an argument with a storm drain.
• 17:22 - I’m pretty sure that with that Gaiman quote it’s originally used to reference retellings and I’m just bogarting it to talk about adaptations. But I guess you could make a very reasoned argument that adaptations are just retellings with a bit of a medium shift. Blah.
• 31:51 - Mason whips out... test the meat... heyoooooooooo
• 46:10 - A Matter of Interpretation is our spinoff podcast where we’re even more obtuse and pedantic

Music:

• Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
• Outro: "March of the Pigs" - Nine Inch Nails | YouTube | iTunes |

(Header image taken from this post: http://ninthdoctorsbutt.tumblr.com/post/86010252406)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT042/AMOT042.mp3

041: Hannibal 2x11 "Ko No Mono" - Useless Prognostication

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x11, as well as mild spoilers for the novel Hannibal.

In this episode:

• Discussion of Hannibal 2x11 "Ko No Mono," including the fate of Freddie Lounds, religious symbolism, how Hannibal perceives the people around him, the Vergers, and Alana's journey this episode and beyond
• What does all of this mean for Will's slide into darkness?
• Hannibal as manipulator vs Hannibal as lifetroll. Ian concludes: Hannibal, you fucker.
• Also according to Ian: Bryan Fuller is basically Hannibal. Minus the cannibalism and the murder and all that jazz, but you catch my drift.
• Lots of religious symbolism.
• We talk about how serialized this season has been, and the way the writing reflects elements of Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs.
• Who's in on what? What's the end game?

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• There's definitely a bunch of stuff we didn't dig deep into here--feel free to bring things up in the comments.
• Highlights from Fio's timestamps:
• 33:08 - Does anyone want to join my Nerdcore Shoegaze band Useless Prognostication?
• 39:37 - So we’re talking about Hannibal’s religious beliefs here, but quick aside. A Gay Christian and a Straight Atheist debate horror movies. You realize this is a sitcom, right? We live in a sitcom right now and it’s all our fault.
• 52:47 - WHY IS SOMEONE FROM KENTUCKY CALLING MY PHONE IAN? I KNOW THIS IS YOUR DOING IAN.
• How sincere is Hannibal? Like, at any point in time? Ever?

Sounds/Music:

• "Previously On" clips taken from AMOT 012 & 013. 
• Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
• Outro: "I Want to Conquer the World" by Bad Religion | YouTube | iTunes |

 (Header image taken from http://mongoosewillygraham.tumblr.com/post/85291482730/bless-you)
 
http://archive.org/download/AMOT041/AMOT041.mp3

040: Hannibal 2x10 "Naka-Choko" - Theremins, Harpsichords, Glass Harmonicai

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x10, as well as spoilers for the novels Red Dragon and Hannibal.

In this episode:

• Discussion of Hannibal 2x10 "Naka-Choko," including the so sexy, so confusing 2-way-by-2-way-which-turned-into-a-3-or-4-way-and-then-somehow-became-a-5-way-except-not-since-the-wendigo-represents-Hannibal-but-kind-of? ...What the fuck, Bryan Fuller.
• Mason and Margot: model siblings.
• Here's the Hannibal meta from Tumblr user dignityisforotherpeople, concerning the parallels between Margot and Will's backstories and how they might factor into their relationship.
• So what DID happen to Freddie? (Featured above is Ian's current headcanon.)
• How long before we start to see the whole story, and not just the version of the truth we're seeing now?
• No one is going to be happy at the end of this season. Not Will, not Alana, not Hannibal.

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• Here is the Wiki article on Franz Mesmer, the inspiration for the term mesmerize. Witness how bad I am at recalling history! EDIT: Also, listening back to the episode--in my excitement to bring in Dr. Mesmer, I didn't actually say "Dr. Mesmer would play the glass harmonica for his patients." Which was the whole point of bringing him up, and why the glass harmonica is often associated with being a "psychological" instrument, as evident from its use in...
• The Mad Scene from the opera Lucia di Lammermoor, featuring glass harmonica. The improvisation and echo I mentioned on the podcast begins around 10:11.
• Highlights from Fio's timestamps:
• 10:05 - Let’s just take a moment to reflect on how upsetting the use of the word “tore” is here. Like why. I get that we like cherrypicking lines from the books and all, but fucking why.
• 38:10 - You say “we’ve had some awkward dinner conversations” and for a second I forgot you were going to say “on this show” and my brain immediately went to “yeah, we have had some awkward dinner conversations. Like remember that loud conversation about whether or not having sex on top of a dead body would count as a necrophiliac threesome? Or about how squid-people were the future of intelligent life on earth and somebody posted the whole thing on Facebook like ‘what is wrong with these people?’”

Music:

• Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
• Outro: "Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts III-IV)" - Pink Floyd | YouTube | iTunes |

(Header image drawn by me, Ian. I imagine them holed up in a bunker somewhere getting sick of each other as they wait for word from Will or Crawford. It's much more pleasant to imagine than the alternative.)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT040/AMOT040.mp3

039: Hannibal 2x09 "Shiizakana" - When a Werebear Busts Into Your House

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x09, as well as some spoilers for Red Dragon.

In this episode:

• Discussion of Hannibal 2x09 "Shiizakana," including STEAMPUNK WEREWOLF, WOOOOOOOO, THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS \m/
• I SUPPOSE we discussed some other stuff, like Will and Margot's burgeoning relationship, Will and Hannibal's developing relationship, the use of the werewolf as a metaphor this episode, Will's plunge head first into darkness (not to be confused with the Star Trek movie of the same name), and many predictions for the future.
• We make a lot of references to bonearenaofmyskull this episode, 'cause she's just been plowing through questions about Hannibal and coming up with fantastic responses.
• Who was Bryan Fuller referring to when he talked about the three characters destined to die this season? We speculate. Ian's afraid that it won't stop there, hE'S A MONSTER, HE'LL NEVER STOP *sobs*
• We talk a little bit about the female characters on the show, and how many who were introduced in season 1 will stick around with us.
• What's Bryan Fuller's intention with all this talk of "becoming"?
• We were clearly invested in Buster’s fate given how long we’re talking about him here. Here is an epic retelling of the ordeal.
• Actual photo from last week’s Hannibal

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• No outtakes this week. Sorry!
• I think what I was trying to say at the end of the podcast was something along the lines of, "Will has crossed 'the line'--now it's just a matter of seeing if/how he can come back over it once all of this is over."
• Highlights from Fio's timestamps:
• 11:07 - “Just another one of those murder opera things” sounds like the title of a patter song in one of the BEST MUSICALS EVER
• 55:05 - My speech on this podcast is goddamn shatnerian, the pauses I’m using here are ridiculous
• 1:05:14 - “I’m starting to wonder if Hannibal thinks of himself as Jesus Batman” I just want to remind you that this is a sentence that we are going to publish and commit to posterity forever and that is fantastic.
• 1:06:05 - Maybe we should make the point that saying Hannibal is just Batman without his one rule is an oversimplification because they’re vastly different characters, haha.

 Music/Sounds:

• Intro quote from The Wolf Man (1941) | YouTube |
• Intro music: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
• Outro music: "Hungry Like the Wolf" - Duran Duran | YouTube | iTunes |

(Screencap taken from http://screencapped.net/tv/hannibal/thumbnails.php?album=38&page=17)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT039/AMOT039.mp3

038: Hannibal 2x08 "Su-Zakana" - Maybe I'm A Little Sensitive...

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x08 and the Hannibal book and film.

In this episode:

• There were some birds, and a murder victim, and a horse, and then some truly horrifying shenanigans ensued.
• Oh, stuff happened on the podcast too.
• We talk about the introduction of Margot Verger, what we think of the changes to her character, the reasons Bryan Fuller had for enacting these changes, and how we could possibly see him tackling the bucket of worms that is any storyline involving Mason.
• Some contrasting discussion looking at the way Hannibal has been structuring story arcs vs. the way we see story arcs being constructed on The Walking Dead.
• There are also a few more jabs to be had at the brick-upside-the-head-subtle Chess metaphor The Walking Dead hammered on the first half of Season Four, so of course we had to get them in.
• What exactly is Will playing at going all gun-pully-don't-stop-gotta-murder on the Killer of the Week this episode? Is that a sincere expression of his frustration at being rendered powerless and pinned with Hannibal's crimes, or is it his own version of fishing, trying to lure Hannibal into a false sense of security and a familiar position of power over him?

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• The AVClub's interview with Bryan Fuller regarding this episode.
• HannibalCafe's Su-Zakana recap/quote repository
• Context for Margot's appearance courtesy of Cleo. TWs for a lot, like a whole lot, they're mentioned in the top of the post.
• Highlights from Ian's timestamps:
• 23:05 - p. And who the fuck says “Out the wazoo.”
• 31:32 - Omg, I’m so frustrated with myself. I completely misunderstood what was going on with the KOTW this episode until I read the AV Club interview in full (as you can see from my comment below). I somehow didn’t understand that Peter was the one who sewed the first girl into the horse and put the bird inside her, but he didn’t kill her. Clark killed her, and Peter knew her, and he was trying to give her a (symbolic) rebirth. Which is just ten kinds of depressing. And then Will makes the comment about “Killing them” because he thinks Peter just killed his social worker, and “them” just refers to bad people (or “the people we’ve killed”) in general. Which is interesting, because it also calls to mind Will’s feelings about killing Garrett Jacob Hobbs.
• 54:50 - I think a simpler way to put what I was trying to convey is, “Alana may start to believe that Will is really the bad guy, and Hannibal is the victim in this situation.”
• 55:30 - Really, Ian? “Living for that moment”? That’s a bit strong.
• 1:04:28 - P. And what am I trying to do by prolonging the episode? WHAT DO, IAN?
• 1:06:02 - 1:07:07 - AGAIN WITH THE PROLONGING THE EPISODE.

 Music:

• Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
• Outro: "Goodbye Horses" - Q Lazzarus | YouTube | iTunes |

(Header image from http://bring-chloroform-im-in-love.tumblr.com/post/83616704657)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT038/AMOT038.mp3

037: Hannibal 2x07 "Yakimono" - The Serial Killer Experience

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x07

In this episode:

• Holy crap. I know we've said we meander in the past, but buckle in for this one, listeners.
• Discussion of Hannibal 2x07 "Yakimono," including the uncertain fate of Chilton, the uncertain brain chemistry of Miriam Lass, story structure and plotting, Jack's development as a character, and wendigos. Our verdict: there should be more of them. In modern horror fiction. Not just roaming around and eating people in general.
• We debate meta and in-story reasons for and against Chilton being dead. We hope he's not.
• What the fuck did Hannibal do to Miriam?
• Themes and philosophies at war in Fuller's scripts
• Chilton's house is furnished much differently than Fio imagined.
• How happy is Hannibal, having to be secretive so much of the time?

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• The many faces of Frederick Chilton, Yakimono edition
• Tumblr user empty-motion's submission Re: Hannibal and musical form
• Highlights from Fio's timestamps:
• 2:22 - The podcast proper begins. Make a wish.
• 3:35 - 4:10 - This is that whole big digression where you thought I was confusing Chilton and Gideon. there’s probably a lot of waffling that we can clean out of here. And then eat. With syrup. And berries. Because waffles.  

 Music:

• Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
• Outro: "Suggestions" - System of a Down | YouTube | iTunes |

(Screencap taken from http://screencapped.net/tv/hannibal/thumbnails.php?album=36&page=14, because hey! It's back! Yay!)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT037/AMOT037.mp3