013: Red Dragon (2002) - RIDE With Me!

SPOILERS FOR "RED DRAGON" (2002), SEASON 1 OF NBC'S HANNIBAL, AND RED DRAGON BY THOMAS HARRIS

In this episode:

• Cleolinda joins us once again for the final Anthony Hopkins Hannibal movie! (See, we can be completionist, too :P )
• RIDE with us as we discuss the 2002 adaptation of Thomas Harris' novel Red Dragon, including Brett Ratner's directing decisions, Danny Elfman's score, Ralph Fiennes performance as Francis Dolarhyde, and Anthony Hopkins' performance as Hannibal.
• Listen to our FANTASTIC renditions of Danny Elfman's score.
• Film Crit Hulk's THE AGE OF THE CONVOLUTED BLOCKBUSTER essay
• If you ever want to hear Cleo talk in a pirate voice, now's your chance. Also, a fanfic is born.
• I stumbled upon the alternate ending of "Manhunter" the other day, and it's got quite a different spin on it than the ending they used.
• Life Advice from Cleolinda Jones
• Cleo reads from the last page of Red Dragon.
• I make the WORST pun in the history of the podcast.
• Michael Bay's "Red Dragon": What Could Have Been
• OUTTAKES: Highlights from our first attempt at recording this episode. And by "highlights," I mean, "Mostly just listen to Cleo's audio degrade and create comedy gold as it struggles to fight a thunderstorm."

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• I say on the podcast that this is the 2004 adaptation of Red Dragon. It was 2002. My apologies.
• Trepidatious IS a word! I should have more confidence in my abilities to word. 
• UPDATE: Cleo made a post about her episodes of the podcast, linking to some of the follow-up questions she answered on Tumblr, including her ideal book/movie Hannibal ending and what order people should watch the movies in.

Music/Sounds:

• Intro quote: South Park, Season 8, Ep. 13, "Cartman's Incredible Gift" - DO YOU SEE!
• Intro song: "Main Titles" - Danny Elfman, Red Dragon (Soundtrack from the Motion Picture) | iTunes |
• Outro song: "He's Back!" - Danny Elfman, Red Dragon (Soundtrack from the Motion Picture)  | iTunes |

(Screencap from http://ladymanson.com/galleries/movies/MoviesRS/thumbnails.php?album=61)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT013/AMOT013.mp3

012: Hannibal (2001) - Child Martini Tears

SPOILERS FOR "HANNIBAL" (2001), "SILENCE OF THE LAMBS" (1991), SEASON 1 OF NBC'S HANNIBAL, HANNIBAL AND HANNIBAL RISING BY THOMAS HARRIS, AND PHANTOM: LOVE NEVER DIES (no, seriously)

In this episode:

• Cleolinda joins us again!
• Listen as we oscillate back and forth between amusement and utter horror. Get a drink; this one's a doozy.
• Discussion of the 2001 adaptation of Thomas Harris' novel Hannibal, including Jesus, Take the Wheel, This Fucking Movie
• This episode is somewhat long and meandering, so in addition to giving you time marks here, there are a few musical breaks in the episode:
• Anthony Hopkins performance (29:38), which we continue to discuss throughout
• The birth of Hannibal's memory palace (42:53), and the implications it has on the NBC series
• Musical Break (48:15)
• Opinions on Mason Verger (49:12). Short version: he's a horrible person.
• The ending of the book, the original script, and the filmed ending, starting with a discussion of Krendler (Ray Liotta) (54:34)
• I go off on a tangent comparing this to Phantom: Love Never Dies (1:17:37).
• Musical Break (1:25:52)
• Hannibal's literary family, and the effect the audience has on the creator (1:26:48)
• "Clarice" Easter Egg on the Hannibal DVD (1:41:01)
• Musical Break (1:43:26)
• I start paging through my notes for stuff to talk about, and we jump around to a lot of different topics (1:44:38)
• My list of CAPS LOCK comments to round off the discussion (1:58:47), including more Krendler rage and discussion of the final scene
• Musical Break (2:12:27)
• A short discussion of the Comic-Con panel and the other pannibal (2:13:00)
• Florence is gorgeous. 'Nuff said.
• Hannibal is insane. No, really.
• "I'm Ridley Scott, and I DO WHAT I WANT."
• Seriously--Julianne Moore does a good job!
• Fuckin' Nazis, man.
• Horror: It's not about the viscera.
• Mason Verger is a horrible person.
• Krendler is a dickwheel.
• God bless everybody.
• Links:
• Cleo's posts on the Comic-Con panel and the other pannibal
• If anyone knows who the Tumblr user doing the specialized flower crowns is, can you send us a link, either by email or comment or Tumblr ask? I tried Googling it and had trouble finding it. Thanks!

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• Once again, we had a few issues with Cleo's audio, but I did my best to edit around it.
• We didn't really answer Cleo's question about how we interpreted Clarice's tear at the end of the movie. I guess for me I'd go with "anguish"--like, "How did it come to this?"
• In listening to "Beneath a Moonless Sky" (aka "The Fucking Song"), I discovered I was wrong about when the Phantom and Christine, ah, did the deed. It wasn't during that night from the first musical. It was ON THE EVE OF CHRISTINE AND RAOUL'S WEDDING. O_O Why do these sorts of things just continue to get more fucked up?
• Also, for the record: I actually really like a lot of the music in Love Never Dies, including "Beneath a Moonless Sky." It's just the lyrics and story that get me. I mean, the way I look at BaMS is that it's trying to be "The Point of No Return," except a LOT more literal with all of the sexual innuendo, to the point where it's not even innuendo anymore.
• We didn't exactly get into the more objectionable stuff in the book beyond Fio's quick reference to it early on, but if you're curious, there is the Wikipedia page. Consider yourself warned, though.
• Pretty sure I pronounced Mason Verger's last name two different ways this episode. I apologize.
• Also, I start talking about the "naked" drawings close to the end of our movie discussion, and listening back to it, I probably should've use the word "nude." "Naked" just sounds awkward to me. I don't know. Again, apologies.
• While writing up this post and searching for the YouTube links for the music, I got wrapped up in a couple of clips from Silence of the Lambs, so forgive me if this went up later than expected. You understand. 
• I seriously never used to curse this much, let alone drop the f-bomb left and right. What happened? #hannibalhappened #duh

Music:

• "Vide Cor Meum" - Patrick Cassidy and Hans Zimmer | YouTube | iTunes |
• "Beneath a Moonless Sky" - Andrew Lloyd Webber | YouTube | iTunes |
• "Clarice" - Marc Streitenfeld | YouTube |

 (Screencaps taken from http://screenmusings.org/Hannibal/index_7.htm#626; captions added using quickmeme.com)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT012/AMOT012.mp3

011: Silence of the Lambs (1991) - CLARICE!

SPOILERS FOR "SILENCE OF THE LAMBS" (1991), SEASON 1 OF NBC'S HANNIBAL, AND SILENCE OF THE LAMBS BY THOMAS HARRIS

Also, the opening song is definitely NSFW.

In this episode:

• Cleolinda Jones joins us for our discussion! W00T!
• Discussion of the 1991 adaptation of Thomas Harris' novel The Silence of the Lambs, including Jodie Foster's performance as Clarice, Anthony Hopkins' iconic performance as Hannibal, and comparing/contrasting with NBC Hannibal
• This is another long one, so here are some time marks for major discussions:
• What is horror? (7:48) The Wikipedia article on horror and terror, featuring the Ann Radcliffe definition Cleo mentions
• Watching "Silence of the Lambs" in the context of NBC's Hannibal (23:20)
• Cinematography and blocking (36:15)
• TV SPOILERS: Abigail's dead, guys, and we need to start the healing process. Also, IT SOMEHOW FINDS A WAY TO GET WORSE. (48:28)
• Ted Levine's performance as Buffalo Bill (1:11:05)
• The problematic nature of Buffalo Bill's confusing trans*?/not trans*?/genderqueer? status, intersectionality, and how to be a fan of problematic things (1:15:24)
• Casting discussion (1:34:52)
• Will NBC get the rights to the Silence of the Lambs characters? Also, possible alternatives. (1:47:14)
• Why people should go ahead and watch "Silence of the Lambs," despite it being the blueprint for future seasons of the TV series (1:51:40)
• Flower crowns: what is the dealio. (1:54:25)
• Cleo sheds light on different aspects of the story and film-making with her notes on the Criterion commentary and deleted scenes.
• Cleo and Fio (holy crap I just realized that rhymes) have both read the books. I have not. They have cool insights into the movie and how it compares to the book. I do not.
• Apparently, Cleo falls out of her chair a lot. X)
• Clarice really is a badass.
• Lecter's "humanity," and how this influenced Hopkin's portrayal
• Here's a list of odds and ends links:
• Tattle-Crime.com's Interview with Lara Jean Chorostecki
• The official answer to the flower crowns question (posted after the recording of this episode, otherwise we would've discussed it on the podcast)
• Will Graham Has a Nice Day, and the picture we reference
• Lecter & Me, the Red Dragon featurette with Anthony Hopkins

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• We had a slight issue with Cleo's audio at some points, but I don't think it gets too distracting.
• I couldn't find the name of the girl Clarice examines in the moment Jodie Foster refers to as "hero accepting her task." If anyone knows, leave a comment or send us an email.
• We did our best in the time we had to discuss the issues of Buffalo Bill's problematic representation/non-representation of the trans* community, but please let us know if any corrections need to be made or if someone better informed than us would like to weigh in on the discussion.
• A lot of stuff happened at the SDCC panel and the fan meet-up, which we'll probably discuss a little bit next episode.
• I'm probably forgetting something. Let us know in the comments or email.

Music:

• Intro: "Put the F*cking Lotion in the Basket" - Jon Kaplan & Al Kaplan | YouTube | iTunes |
• Outro: "Goodbye Horses" - Garvey | YouTube | iTunes |

(Screencaps from screenmusings.org, Neil DeGrasse Tyson meme pulled from knowyourmeme.com)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT011/AMOT011.mp3

010: Manhunter (1986) - Dolarhyde's Chairs

SPOILERS FOR "MANHUNTER" (1986), SEASON 1 OF NBC'S HANNIBAL, AND RED DRAGON BY THOMAS HARRIS

In this episode:

• Discussion of "Manhunter," the 1986 adaptation of Thomas Harris' novel Red Dragon, including Brian Cox's interpretation of Hannibal, the hallmarks of '80s movies, Tom Noonan's interpretation of Francis Dolarhyde, and off-putting chair designs
• Seriously, every time the movie feels like it's not so '80s, you get an '80s power ballad or Will Graham calling Dolarhyde "sport."
• Actually, who does Will think he is, Jay Gatsby?
• Serial killers--did "Manhunter" define their depiction in film? (Martha DeLaurentiis believes so)
• We look at the way Will interprets crime scenes in this movie, and how it compares to the TV series.
• What WAS Tom Noonan doing?
• YOU LISTEN TO HANNIBAL WHEN HE'S SPEAKING TO YOU, WILL GRAHAM.
• Dolarhyde's kitchen chairs! They're very distracting! (Have you heard my new indie-prog-punk-core band, Dolarhyde's Chairs?) (Thanks to Tattle-Crime.com for the find [and Cleolinda for the request]!)
• MAJOR SPOILERS FOR THE ENDING OF RED DRAGON. In short: Things don't work out quite as well for Will as they do in the movie. (Maybe if he'd done an '80s action-movie window crash...?)
• The Hannibal Book Club on Tumblr
• We're Alive, the Zombie Radio Drama
• We've announced a contest winner!
• Also, the special guest next episode is none other than Cleolinda Jones! Listen in next time as we discuss Silence of the Lambs (1991)!

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• Sensuous. I think that's the word I was looking for when talking about Reba's experience with the tiger. Much different connotation.
• We apologize to the '80s. We really don't hate you. It's just your over-the-top synth ballads that are somewhat disconcerting amidst dark psychological drama.
• SMELL YOURSELF!

Music:

• "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" - Iron Butterfly | YouTube | iTunes | (They only have the single version on iTunes! I KNOW!)
• "Heartbeat" - Red 7 | YouTube | iTunes | (Oh, '80s music videos.)

(Screencap taken from this YouTube video)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT010/AMOT010.mp3

009: Hannibal 1x13 "Savoureux" - Like a Powder Charge into an Old-Timey Musket

 

SPOILERS FOR THE HANNIBAL SEASON 1 FINALE

In this episode:

• ...AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH.
• Discussion of Hannibal 1x13 "Savoureux," and the many things that went down in the season 1 finale
• This is a long episode, so here's a breakdown of some of the major conversations we had amidst the episode recap:
• Thematic similarities between Abigail & Miriam (14:28), with some Mischa and Clarice comparisons
• How responsible does Hannibal actually feel for Abigail's death? (31:13)
• Will's time loss interpreted as disassociation vs. memory loss (47:50)
• The Cryptic Conversations of Dr. Du Maurier and Dr. Lecter, or: How much does Bedelia really know? (1:14:39)
• Looking forward to season 2 (1:24:00)
• Plans for the podcast over the summer, this fall, and BEYOND (okay, maybe just for the summer and the fall) (1:35:45)
• Caroline Dhavernas (Alana) is awesome. 'Nuff said.
• Let's just get all of our Crawford frustration out: AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH. Better?
• I make lots of weird noises, especially when watching Hannibal.
• This show: dramatic irony at its finest.
• Also, no one's going to admit to murder in this show, but they're definitely going to make damn sure they imply it.
• No one should want to be Hannibal's friend. Seriously.
• Last day to submit to the contest! We'll stop accepting submissions at midnight EST on Thursday. If you're working on something but you're not sure if you'll have it finished by then, email us about it, and we'll see if we can work something out.
• Also, we'll be updating once every two weeks this summer. The next episode will be released July 11, and it'll be a discussion of the movie Manhunter, the first cinematic interpretation of one of the Hannibal books.

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• The Georgia Madchen episode Fio is talking about in reference to Will's disassociation/memory loss is "Buffet Froid," not "Rôti." Our mistake.
• I've never played a Fatal Frame game, but unless I'm much mistaken, the titular "Fatal Frame" refers to the moment of death, rather than the lifeless body afterward, which makes it not quite as apt a comparison to the bodies presented in Hannibal's office as they go through each of the Copycat Killer's murders. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about this.
• We mentioned that my "Will hallucinated his kiss with Alana" theory was shot down, but didn't exactly say why: Will makes reference to how he's surprised Crawford let her in to see him in the interrogation room, given his "romantic overtures," to which Alana responds, "Jack doesn't know," then glances at the one-way glass in the room, and follows up with, "Didn't know."
• At some point I say something about Will being in jail, when of course I mean the mental institution. Hey, I wasn't the only one who made the mistake.
• RE: Reviewing Walking Dead in the fall: If we do decide to discuss The Walking Dead this fall, which is looking more and more likely, we'll have at least one episode recapping the first three seasons to bring everyone up to speed. We won't leave you hanging.

Thanks again to everyone who's been listening! We hope you've enjoyed our discussions about season 1 of NBC's Hannibal--keep listening over the summer as we look back at the movie series!

Music/Sounds:

• Intro quote: Bill Murray, The Royal Tennenbaums
• Intro/outro song:  "I'm Not Okay (I Promise)" - My Chemical Romance | YouTube | iTunes |

(Image copied from this post on the NBC Hannibal Tumblr)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT009/AMOT009.mp3

008: Hannibal 1x12 "Relevés" - Flamey Staggy Glory

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 1x12 

In this episode:

• We have an official contest post! Check out the prize! Deadline is June 27th, so get on it!
• Tattle-crime.com Interview with Bryan Fuller 
• We go into a little bit of detail on our plans over the summer. In short: moving to a bi-weekly format, we'll try and get some guests on, discuss horror-themed stuff, etc.
• Discussion of Hannibal 1x12 "Relevés," Georgia's fate, Will figuring out stuff but not quite cracking it, Jack Crawford getting some stuff right and other stuff horribly wrong, and once again, Hannibal proving that he's the Devil incarnate
• There is a whole lotta episode here, so we jump around quite a bit.
• Our text conversation during the episode. This show is very stressful.
• Silkie chicken
• Stop-motion live action = “Goosestepping.” It’s a thing. For me, at least. Actually, looking back at that clip, it's not quite as pronounced as I remember, but you get the idea.
• How does Hannibal do horror better than most modern horror movies? Let me count the ways.
• Dead theory: it's what's on the menu.
• A session of Wild Mass Guessing, for kicks, since we're approaching the season finale
• The NBC Hannibal Tumblr, in all its glory

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• The post I quote from at the end--I screwed up the friggin' joke. The line is, "And in that moment, I SWEAR we were all that blanket."
• I started thinking about it today--perhaps part of the reason Will is just sort of all, "Yeah, killing your dad felt good" in that scene at the psychiatric hospital with Abigail might've been because he was willing to say whatever to get on her good side and convince her to come with him? Who knows. Either Will's being genuine, in which case it's creepy, or he's not, in which case he's being manipulative, and makes me think he's been hanging out with Hannibal too much. Of course, there are plenty of OTHER reasons why Will has been hanging out with Hannibal too much, but--you get the point.

Music:

• Intro: "Lotion" - Greenskeepers | YouTube | iTunes |
• Outro: "Burn Fetish" - Eyedea and Abilities | YouTube | iTunes |

(Screencap by me, since I couldn't find one online that I liked. You know how many times I had to watch Georgia getting gored while trying to get this pic?)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT008/AMOT008.mp3

007: Hannibal 1x11 "Rôti" - Plot Holes Don't Happen in Murder Operas

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 1x11 (as well as mild spoilers for Red Dragon/Hannibal)

In this episode:

• Again: if you haven't already, check out The Ravenstag, by Tumblr user haliameguid 
• Discussion of Hannibal 1x11 "Rôti," Will's brain popping, Hannibal being Satan, Eddie Izzard (Dr. Gideon) being awesome, Lara Jean Chorostecki (Freddie Lounds) being awesome, and YAY WILL'S IN A HOSPITAL [/things I never expected to say]
• Guillermo Navarro is incredibly artful in his cinematography.
• Wriggling tongues = our NOPE wells have run dry
• I believe this is the Gustav Doré woodcut Fio was talking about.
• We discuss Hannibal sympathizers/Hannigram shipping in the context of what Hannibal has done the past few episodes.
• Jack Crawford: King of Not Helping? (After Hannibal, of course.)
• Ian drops the f-bomb a lot. Like, a lot.
• We try to figure out once again what Hannibal's game is.
• Contest prize announced! A pair of antler-themed wine glasses and a copy of Red Dragon, the original novel by Thomas Harris (pictures and an official contest post coming soon). New deadline is June 27--one week after the season finale.

THERE'S ALWAYS AN ADDENDUM:

• One big one: We completely skipped the scene with Bedelia DuMaurier at the end of this episode. That is an egregious error on our part, and we apologize.

Music:

• Intro: "Lotion" - Greenskeepers | YouTube | iTunes |
• Outro: "Pyrite Pedestal" - Pretty Girls Make Graves | YouTube | iTunes |

(Screencap from screencapped.net, caption is based on content from this podcast episode, image made using quickmeme.com)

http://archive.org/download/AMOT007/AMOT007.mp3