Wednesday, April 30, 2014

039: Hannibal 2x09 "Shiizakana" - When a Werebear Busts Into Your House

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x09, as well as some spoilers for Red Dragon.

In this episode:
  • Discussion of Hannibal 2x09 "Shiizakana," including STEAMPUNK WEREWOLF, WOOOOOOOO, THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS \m/
  • I SUPPOSE we discussed some other stuff, like Will and Margot's burgeoning relationship, Will and Hannibal's developing relationship, the use of the werewolf as a metaphor this episode, Will's plunge head first into darkness (not to be confused with the Star Trek movie of the same name), and many predictions for the future.
  • We make a lot of references to bonearenaofmyskull this episode, 'cause she's just been plowing through questions about Hannibal and coming up with fantastic responses.
  • Who was Bryan Fuller referring to when he talked about the three characters destined to die this season? We speculate. Ian's afraid that it won't stop there, hE'S A MONSTER, HE'LL NEVER STOP *sobs*
  • We talk a little bit about the female characters on the show, and how many who were introduced in season 1 will stick around with us.
  • What's Bryan Fuller's intention with all this talk of "becoming"?
  • We were clearly invested in Buster’s fate given how long we’re talking about him here. Here is an epic retelling of the ordeal.
  • Actual photo from last week’s Hannibal
  • No outtakes this week. Sorry!
  • I think what I was trying to say at the end of the podcast was something along the lines of, "Will has crossed 'the line'--now it's just a matter of seeing if/how he can come back over it once all of this is over."
  • Highlights from Fio's timestamps:
    • 11:07 - “Just another one of those murder opera things” sounds like the title of a patter song in one of the BEST MUSICALS EVER
    • 55:05 - My speech on this podcast is goddamn shatnerian, the pauses I’m using here are ridiculous
    • 1:05:14 - “I’m starting to wonder if Hannibal thinks of himself as Jesus Batman” I just want to remind you that this is a sentence that we are going to publish and commit to posterity forever and that is fantastic.
    • 1:06:05 - Maybe we should make the point that saying Hannibal is just Batman without his one rule is an oversimplification because they’re vastly different characters, haha.
  • Intro quote from The Wolf Man (1941) | YouTube |
  • Intro music: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro music: "Hungry Like the Wolf" - Duran Duran | YouTube | iTunes |

(Screencap taken from

Wednesday, April 23, 2014

038: Hannibal 2x08 "Su-Zakana" - Maybe I'm A Little Sensitive...

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x08 and the Hannibal book and film.

In this episode:
  • There were some birds, and a murder victim, and a horse, and then some truly horrifying shenanigans ensued.
  • Oh, stuff happened on the podcast too.
  • We talk about the introduction of Margot Verger, what we think of the changes to her character, the reasons Bryan Fuller had for enacting these changes, and how we could possibly see him tackling the bucket of worms that is any storyline involving Mason.
  • Some contrasting discussion looking at the way Hannibal has been structuring story arcs vs. the way we see story arcs being constructed on The Walking Dead.
    • There are also a few more jabs to be had at the brick-upside-the-head-subtle Chess metaphor The Walking Dead hammered on the first half of Season Four, so of course we had to get them in.
  • What exactly is Will playing at going all gun-pully-don't-stop-gotta-murder on the Killer of the Week this episode? Is that a sincere expression of his frustration at being rendered powerless and pinned with Hannibal's crimes, or is it his own version of fishing, trying to lure Hannibal into a false sense of security and a familiar position of power over him?

  • The AVClub's interview with Bryan Fuller regarding this episode.
  • HannibalCafe's Su-Zakana recap/quote repository
  • Context for Margot's appearance courtesy of Cleo. TWs for a lot, like a whole lot, they're mentioned in the top of the post.
  • Highlights from Ian's timestamps:
    • 23:05 - p. And who the fuck says “Out the wazoo.”
    • 31:32 - Omg, I’m so frustrated with myself. I completely misunderstood what was going on with the KOTW this episode until I read the AV Club interview in full (as you can see from my comment below). I somehow didn’t understand that Peter was the one who sewed the first girl into the horse and put the bird inside her, but he didn’t kill her. Clark killed her, and Peter knew her, and he was trying to give her a (symbolic) rebirth. Which is just ten kinds of depressing. And then Will makes the comment about “Killing them” because he thinks Peter just killed his social worker, and “them” just refers to bad people (or “the people we’ve killed”) in general. Which is interesting, because it also calls to mind Will’s feelings about killing Garrett Jacob Hobbs.
    • 54:50 - I think a simpler way to put what I was trying to convey is, “Alana may start to believe that Will is really the bad guy, and Hannibal is the victim in this situation.”
    • 55:30 - Really, Ian? “Living for that moment”? That’s a bit strong.
    • 1:04:28 - P. And what am I trying to do by prolonging the episode? WHAT DO, IAN?
    • 1:06:02 - 1:07:07 - AGAIN WITH THE PROLONGING THE EPISODE.
  • Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "Goodbye Horses" - Q Lazzarus | YouTube | iTunes |
(Header image from

Wednesday, April 16, 2014

037: Hannibal 2x07 "Yakimono" - The Serial Killer Experience

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x07

In this episode:
  • Holy crap. I know we've said we meander in the past, but buckle in for this one, listeners.
  • Discussion of Hannibal 2x07 "Yakimono," including the uncertain fate of Chilton, the uncertain brain chemistry of Miriam Lass, story structure and plotting, Jack's development as a character, and wendigos. Our verdict: there should be more of them. In modern horror fiction. Not just roaming around and eating people in general.
  • We debate meta and in-story reasons for and against Chilton being dead. We hope he's not.
  • What the fuck did Hannibal do to Miriam?
  • Themes and philosophies at war in Fuller's scripts
  • Chilton's house is furnished much differently than Fio imagined.
  • How happy is Hannibal, having to be secretive so much of the time?

  • Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "Suggestions" - System of a Down | YouTube | iTunes |
(Screencap taken from, because hey! It's back! Yay!)

Wednesday, April 9, 2014

036: Hannibal 2x06 "Futamono" - Friends, Not Food Processors

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x06, as well as mild spoilers for HANNIBAL 2x07 

In this episode:
  • Discussion of Hannibal 2x06 "Futamono," including the RETURN OF MIRIAM, Chilton and his awesome face, Will and Hannibal's tête à tête, Ian's continued distress over how Alana's going to feel after all of this is over, and DAMMIT WHAT IS HANNIBAL'S GAME, WHAT IS IT, FOR PETE'S SAKE, WE NEED ANSWERRRRRRRRRRS *flips tables*
  • Here's Cleo's discussion entry for this episode, which Ian couldn't help but reference multiple times, since her readers are awesome and thoughtful. (Also he apparently has very few original thoughts this week.)
  • Gideon--whatever his plan was--is in a bit of a tight spot now.
  • Lots of symbolism in this episode, from lids to blooming flowers to the musical finality of the last scene.
  • Also lots of Silence of the Lambs references, and a trip back into the Southern Gothic.
  • Ian continues to have mixed feelings over Will's descent into darkness.
  • At 49:30, Ian makes a comment about a spoilery image he saw, and GROSSLY misremembers the information he read in it. SPOILERS FOR 2x07: Here's the actual post--it's from the Korean promo, I believe, and the captions are NOTHING like I said they were, but they're still a little spoilery.
  • The opening murder tableau from Deadly Premonition. Again: kind of graphic.
  • Somewhere in the midst of talking about Will's Descent into Darkness™, I say "And THIS is where Hannibal turns himself around!" Clearly I meant Will. Names. I know them, really.
  • One little highlight from Fio's timestamps, concerning the main topics of this episode:
    • Figuring out Gideon’s game in goading the guards into garroting him (they don’t but I couldn’t break the alliteration)
  • Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "Dear Rosemary" - Foo Fighters | YouTube | iTunes |
(Header image taken from that magnificent Chilton gifset:

Wednesday, April 2, 2014

035: Hannibal 2x05 "Mukozuke" - Live Free or Die Pretentious

Image taken from

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x05, as well as spoilers for the Chronicles of Narnia, The Divine Comedy, and the Animorphs series. C'mon, you've got to listen at least just to see how those tie in, right?

In this episode:
  • How can we possibly parse out what Bryan Fuller means to be a reference to canon material that he doesn't plan to incorporate into the narrative and what is meant to be foreshadowing/a portentous echo of things to come? We... don't really have an answer for that one, open to suggestions.
  • What exactly are the Admirers motivations? What makes him tick? Why, upon further examination, does that conversation he has while stringing Hannibal up make not a lick of emotional sense?
  • We still don't know what words/threats/Nintendo DS Friend Codes were passed between Freddie and Hannibal in that conversation way back in Season 1 and iT'S TEARING IAN APART, LISA.
  • What game is Abel Gideon playing? What horse does he have in this race? What's his stake in this? Or steak in this. Mmmmmmmnh, steak.
  • Hannibal and his murder-wizardry, more specifically why Fio is dancing merry and obnoxious through a field of poppies and completely past any logistical problems the actions of the various killers might present.
  • How do we rectify Will's recent actions with what we know/expect/desperately hope of his morality in the past and the future?
  • I'm really sorry, I wanted to make this title a reference to a better Die Hard but none of them had the cadence I wanted.
  • Without further ado, I'm turning this one directly over to Ian, as he's got some really interesting points in the timestamps:
  • 18:11 - “A little cold.” Heheh. ‘Cause. Y’know. Hannibal froze Bev. ...I’ll leave.
  • 23:30 - Honestly, when we started talking about Freddie & Hannibal, I was totally ready to say, “I wouldn’t be surprised if she was sleeping with him, for whatever reason.” I don’t know why exactly I was getting that vibe--it may have been influenced more than a little bit by that semi-romantic piece of fanart that tattle-crime reblogged--but in any case, it felt to me like there was more to that conversation than meets the eye.
  • 32:47 - Listening to more of the conversation, I guess part of the reason he asks Hannibal if he’s the Chesapeake Ripper is because Beverly just died, Will & Jack know that it was the Chesapeake Ripper, and Matthew has been reading the files associated with Will, so he may have divined “Ok, Will wants me to kill Hannibal Lecter. Why? His friend just died, and that was the Chesapeake Ripper, so...oh.” OR, and this feels more likely to me, Will told him that Hannibal is the Chesapeake Ripper in whatever conversation we didn’t see, and Matthew Brown is asking Hannibal because even he finds it hard to believe. Fuck, man; part of me is looking for an Occam’s Razor reason for all of this, because this is getting really confusing. There are just too many agendas. Bryan Fuller said on Twitter that Matthew Brown isn’t dead, so hopefully it’ll become clearer in future episodes. You mention it on the podcast; this episode ended pretty abruptly, so this was probably just setting up the arc for the next several episodes.
  • 34:25 - Chilton must be getting his therapy tips from Jeremiah Arkham, my word. “Oh, yeah, lemme bring in the guy Will almost killed, who ALSO happens to be a psychopath, to help Will’s therapy. That’s not a bad idea in the slightest.” Yes, yes, “helping his therapy” isn’t the reason he brought Gideon back in, but still: you’re going to throw a murderer and a person you believe to be a murderer into a room together and just let them chat it out? Fuckin’ a, Chilton.
  • 44:20 - What I think I really wanted to get into here and didn’t manage was, how much does Abel really care about when it comes to Will and his goodness? Because basically, if we’re talking about this in really dramatic, operatic terms, the whole scene between Abel and Alana is sort of a “Will’s soul hangs in the balance, and I’m giving you the opportunity to save him--it’s up to you” (which, interestingly enough, is exactly what Alana said she wanted a few episodes ago--”I want to save you”). So does his motivation to tell Alana come from any sort of desire to see Will or Hannibal “saved” (in the case of Will, his soul; in the case of Hannibal, his life)? Or is this another reflection of the Ripper--Abel is just curious to see what’ll happen? Or again, Occam’s Razor--it could be as simple as what you say here: he just wants to screw up Will’s plans.
  • 54:19 - This whole episode is just my brain working faster than my mouth can speak, and my mouth never seems to catch up, and that’s how we get “HEY I’VE GOT FIVE BILLION THEORIES ABOUT THIS SINGLE MOMENT oh fuck wait how were they relevant again dammit Ian.”
  • 1:09:30 - I will entirely admit that there’s an unspoken undercurrent to my whole argument here, which is probably most simply stated as  “I care a lot about Will being a good person and maintaining his innocence, so I’m looking for ways to shift the responsibility for ANY POSSIBLE EVIL he may commit from him to Hannibal.” In other words, I think it’s possible I’m being far more precious with the character of Will Graham than I probably should be for a critical discussion. Also, holy crap, Ian, it’s a TV show. I really need to take a step back and reassess how seriously I’m taking all of this.
  • 1:12:58 - Susan and Peter. Susan. The whole scene hinges on the fact that it’s Susan and Peter talking about Lucy, omg why can’t you speak right former me.

  • Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "The Sound of Silence" - Simon and Garfunkel | YouTube | iTunes |