Wednesday, April 16, 2014

037: Hannibal 2x07 "Yakimono" - The Serial Killer Experience

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x07

In this episode:
  • Holy crap. I know we've said we meander in the past, but buckle in for this one, listeners.
  • Discussion of Hannibal 2x07 "Yakimono," including the uncertain fate of Chilton, the uncertain brain chemistry of Miriam Lass, story structure and plotting, Jack's development as a character, and wendigos. Our verdict: there should be more of them. In modern horror fiction. Not just roaming around and eating people in general.
  • We debate meta and in-story reasons for and against Chilton being dead. We hope he's not.
  • What the fuck did Hannibal do to Miriam?
  • Themes and philosophies at war in Fuller's scripts
  • Chilton's house is furnished much differently than Fio imagined.
  • How happy is Hannibal, having to be secretive so much of the time?

  • Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "Suggestions" - System of a Down | YouTube | iTunes |
(Screencap taken from, because hey! It's back! Yay!)

Wednesday, April 9, 2014

036: Hannibal 2x06 "Futamono" - Friends, Not Food Processors

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x06, as well as mild spoilers for HANNIBAL 2x07 

In this episode:
  • Discussion of Hannibal 2x06 "Futamono," including the RETURN OF MIRIAM, Chilton and his awesome face, Will and Hannibal's tête à tête, Ian's continued distress over how Alana's going to feel after all of this is over, and DAMMIT WHAT IS HANNIBAL'S GAME, WHAT IS IT, FOR PETE'S SAKE, WE NEED ANSWERRRRRRRRRRS *flips tables*
  • Here's Cleo's discussion entry for this episode, which Ian couldn't help but reference multiple times, since her readers are awesome and thoughtful. (Also he apparently has very few original thoughts this week.)
  • Gideon--whatever his plan was--is in a bit of a tight spot now.
  • Lots of symbolism in this episode, from lids to blooming flowers to the musical finality of the last scene.
  • Also lots of Silence of the Lambs references, and a trip back into the Southern Gothic.
  • Ian continues to have mixed feelings over Will's descent into darkness.
  • At 49:30, Ian makes a comment about a spoilery image he saw, and GROSSLY misremembers the information he read in it. SPOILERS FOR 2x07: Here's the actual post--it's from the Korean promo, I believe, and the captions are NOTHING like I said they were, but they're still a little spoilery.
  • The opening murder tableau from Deadly Premonition. Again: kind of graphic.
  • Somewhere in the midst of talking about Will's Descent into Darkness™, I say "And THIS is where Hannibal turns himself around!" Clearly I meant Will. Names. I know them, really.
  • One little highlight from Fio's timestamps, concerning the main topics of this episode:
    • Figuring out Gideon’s game in goading the guards into garroting him (they don’t but I couldn’t break the alliteration)
  • Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "Dear Rosemary" - Foo Fighters | YouTube | iTunes |
(Header image taken from that magnificent Chilton gifset:

Wednesday, April 2, 2014

035: Hannibal 2x05 "Mukozuke" - Live Free or Die Pretentious

Image taken from

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x05, as well as spoilers for the Chronicles of Narnia, The Divine Comedy, and the Animorphs series. C'mon, you've got to listen at least just to see how those tie in, right?

In this episode:
  • How can we possibly parse out what Bryan Fuller means to be a reference to canon material that he doesn't plan to incorporate into the narrative and what is meant to be foreshadowing/a portentous echo of things to come? We... don't really have an answer for that one, open to suggestions.
  • What exactly are the Admirers motivations? What makes him tick? Why, upon further examination, does that conversation he has while stringing Hannibal up make not a lick of emotional sense?
  • We still don't know what words/threats/Nintendo DS Friend Codes were passed between Freddie and Hannibal in that conversation way back in Season 1 and iT'S TEARING IAN APART, LISA.
  • What game is Abel Gideon playing? What horse does he have in this race? What's his stake in this? Or steak in this. Mmmmmmmnh, steak.
  • Hannibal and his murder-wizardry, more specifically why Fio is dancing merry and obnoxious through a field of poppies and completely past any logistical problems the actions of the various killers might present.
  • How do we rectify Will's recent actions with what we know/expect/desperately hope of his morality in the past and the future?
  • I'm really sorry, I wanted to make this title a reference to a better Die Hard but none of them had the cadence I wanted.
  • Without further ado, I'm turning this one directly over to Ian, as he's got some really interesting points in the timestamps:
  • 18:11 - “A little cold.” Heheh. ‘Cause. Y’know. Hannibal froze Bev. ...I’ll leave.
  • 23:30 - Honestly, when we started talking about Freddie & Hannibal, I was totally ready to say, “I wouldn’t be surprised if she was sleeping with him, for whatever reason.” I don’t know why exactly I was getting that vibe--it may have been influenced more than a little bit by that semi-romantic piece of fanart that tattle-crime reblogged--but in any case, it felt to me like there was more to that conversation than meets the eye.
  • 32:47 - Listening to more of the conversation, I guess part of the reason he asks Hannibal if he’s the Chesapeake Ripper is because Beverly just died, Will & Jack know that it was the Chesapeake Ripper, and Matthew has been reading the files associated with Will, so he may have divined “Ok, Will wants me to kill Hannibal Lecter. Why? His friend just died, and that was the Chesapeake Ripper, so...oh.” OR, and this feels more likely to me, Will told him that Hannibal is the Chesapeake Ripper in whatever conversation we didn’t see, and Matthew Brown is asking Hannibal because even he finds it hard to believe. Fuck, man; part of me is looking for an Occam’s Razor reason for all of this, because this is getting really confusing. There are just too many agendas. Bryan Fuller said on Twitter that Matthew Brown isn’t dead, so hopefully it’ll become clearer in future episodes. You mention it on the podcast; this episode ended pretty abruptly, so this was probably just setting up the arc for the next several episodes.
  • 34:25 - Chilton must be getting his therapy tips from Jeremiah Arkham, my word. “Oh, yeah, lemme bring in the guy Will almost killed, who ALSO happens to be a psychopath, to help Will’s therapy. That’s not a bad idea in the slightest.” Yes, yes, “helping his therapy” isn’t the reason he brought Gideon back in, but still: you’re going to throw a murderer and a person you believe to be a murderer into a room together and just let them chat it out? Fuckin’ a, Chilton.
  • 44:20 - What I think I really wanted to get into here and didn’t manage was, how much does Abel really care about when it comes to Will and his goodness? Because basically, if we’re talking about this in really dramatic, operatic terms, the whole scene between Abel and Alana is sort of a “Will’s soul hangs in the balance, and I’m giving you the opportunity to save him--it’s up to you” (which, interestingly enough, is exactly what Alana said she wanted a few episodes ago--”I want to save you”). So does his motivation to tell Alana come from any sort of desire to see Will or Hannibal “saved” (in the case of Will, his soul; in the case of Hannibal, his life)? Or is this another reflection of the Ripper--Abel is just curious to see what’ll happen? Or again, Occam’s Razor--it could be as simple as what you say here: he just wants to screw up Will’s plans.
  • 54:19 - This whole episode is just my brain working faster than my mouth can speak, and my mouth never seems to catch up, and that’s how we get “HEY I’VE GOT FIVE BILLION THEORIES ABOUT THIS SINGLE MOMENT oh fuck wait how were they relevant again dammit Ian.”
  • 1:09:30 - I will entirely admit that there’s an unspoken undercurrent to my whole argument here, which is probably most simply stated as  “I care a lot about Will being a good person and maintaining his innocence, so I’m looking for ways to shift the responsibility for ANY POSSIBLE EVIL he may commit from him to Hannibal.” In other words, I think it’s possible I’m being far more precious with the character of Will Graham than I probably should be for a critical discussion. Also, holy crap, Ian, it’s a TV show. I really need to take a step back and reassess how seriously I’m taking all of this.
  • 1:12:58 - Susan and Peter. Susan. The whole scene hinges on the fact that it’s Susan and Peter talking about Lucy, omg why can’t you speak right former me.

  • Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "The Sound of Silence" - Simon and Garfunkel | YouTube | iTunes |

Wednesday, March 26, 2014

034: Hannibal 2x04 "Takiawase" - Fridging, Mushroom Whispers, Murder Dungeons, and Frippery

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x04, as well as potential spoilers for HANNIBAL 2x05

In this episode:
  • Cleolinda joins us again! Hi Cleo!
  • Discussion of Hannibal 2x04 "Takiawase," including the ungainly horror of the uncanny valley (yes, again), Amanda Plummer's portrayal of the Killer of the Week (KotW for all you kool katz in the housebutKATZOHNOBEVERLY), Zeller and his ability to deliver one hell of a side-eye (BEVERLY WHYYYYYYYY), and Beverly, whether or not she was fridged, what that means for the show's plot and what we can glean about the philosophy of the writing from this decision.
  • Wild Walls are a thing, by the way. Don't say we never taught you nothin'.
  • Aside from that, we also manage to get into a weird discussion of the Worf Effect, Will's memory palace, and a whole lot of other nonsense.
  • Cleolinda introduces us to the most disturbing idea for a fanfic ever. Seriously, not safe for your soul, guise.
  • We speculate a little more on the Admirer storyline, what this means for our previous speculations (mostly just egg on our face. Eggy eggy egg on the face of the Matter of Taste podcasters. Or at least, that's what I'm assuming now. If I'm wrong about this, does that make it double egg or single egg because being right in Hassun negates going back on it now? Something to ponder.)
  • We talk about Constantine for a little bit. I'm SO EXCITED but SO NERVOUS, you have no idea.
  • Oh, here's a link to Bryan Fuller's AV Club interview re: Takiawase
  • There's no way we can actually be as nuanced as one would need to be to give due deference to both the complaints about the way the show has handled Bev's departure from it and the defenses of the writers in how heavily they weighed the decision before they made it. That said...
  • This is an image from a game Ian was referencing in regards to Beverly stepping down into the murder dungeon. Is it from Silent Hill? Is it from some other game series it's from Silent Hill.
  • This is the mixed media piece that Ian references.
  • Without further ado, here's some highlights from Ian's timestamps this week:
    • 34:49 - Splice “Pathetique” in right here if you want--I uploaded the section I was talking about to the Google Drive (Piano Sonata in C minor). I would fade it out around the 30 second mark if you do use it.
      Or you can delete my tangent into Romantic-era music; I won’t be hurt. It’s also my dream that Sleepy Hollow uses “Broken Crown” by Mumford & Sons for a night-time horse chase scene, if they ever have more of those.
      (...Der Erlkönig would be another cool one for Hannibal. I’ll stop now.)
    • 1:01:03 - 1:02:15 - You can totally cut my comparison to the screencap from Silent Hill if it feels like too much of a tangent. It’s kind of dumb. I’m DUMB, Fio. SO DUMB. [/cries in a corner clutching a Pyramid Head doll]
    • 1:31:13 - This is when I first mention we should start wrapping things up. There’s still 22 minutes left in the recording. X)
  • IAN EDIT FROM THE FUTURE: For those curious, this is the Beethoven piece I was referring to--the 1st movement of his "Pathetique." The 2nd movement is possibly more famous, but has a MUCH different feel than what I was talking about.
  • Intro: "Taps," which is... it's "Taps," you guise. Also, "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "Cups" - Anna Kendrick | YouTube | iTunes |

Wednesday, March 19, 2014

033: Hannibal 2x03 "Hassun" - I Am 100% Behind Neutral Evil

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x03, as well as potential spoilers for HANNIBAL 2x05 (more details below on where these spoilers start)

In this episode:
  • Ian resolves his mixed feelings over Bedelia. We know you were waiting with baited breath.
  • Discussion of Hannibal 2x03 "Hassun," including Will's lawyer, Hannibal's feelings toward Will, Alana's feelings toward Will, Freddie Lounds and Chilton being their terrible self, and how things have gotten so messy so quickly.
  • At 50:30, we begin our discussion of who we believe the admirer's TRUE identity to be. HUGE spoiler warning here, because although it's speculation, it's based on concrete evidence, some of which is meta. This essentially takes us to the end of the podcast, so you won't really miss anything else if you stop here.
  • We take a detour into extreme nerdery and start assigning Dungeons & Dragons alignments to the characters of Hannibal. Here's an easy reference that gets the idea across with familiar pop culture figures, for those unfamiliar with the system.
  • How human is Hannibal, really?
  • Alana is the light of the universe.
  • We joke about spinoffs and make everyone feel awful.
  • Here's the AV Club interview with Bryan Fuller about "Hassun"
  • There are a few times in here where we both struggle to come to conclusions about certain things. For the record, we never promised answers--only mental distress.
  • Once again, there's a TON of stuff that in retrospect we didn't spend much time on--e.g., Crawford's time on the stand, etc. Let us know if there's anything in particular you'd like us to hit on in the future.
  • We're sorry we didn't have time for addressing listener comments/feedback this episode. Again, it's a work in progress.
  • Highlights from Fio's timestamps:
    • 0:02 - LOUD IAN. I’M FUCKING LOUD NOW. LOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUD. AND A GUN THAT SHOOTS RAZORBLADES. AND A FLAMETHROWER. Seriously, though, we’re probs gonna have to work on sound balance and junk
    • 0:19 - 0:55 - The podcast’s taint. Now you’ve got me saying it, dammit.
    • 28:34 - Dude, my cat is farting and it smells fucking awful. He sleeps right under my desk, he might as well be goddamn aiming them at me. It’s like his ass knows trigonometry.
    • 41:51 - Cat’s farting again goddammit goddammit goddammit
    • (Literally several hours after finishing the timestamps) Oh my jesus fucking christ, cat
    • -Thematic rhyming? Dude we spent a whole lot of time doing alignments, haha       

  • Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "If I Only Had a Brain" - The Wizard of Oz (Original Motion Picture Sountrack) | YouTube | iTunes |
 (Header image taken from

Wednesday, March 12, 2014

032: Hannibal 2x02 "Sakizuki" - Damn the Floodgates


In this episode:
  • You all saw that, right? Holy crap, that episode hammered home the new status quo with aplomb.
  • We get into the odd dynamic between Bedelia and Hannibal, why we're still worried for her life, and what exactly we think is going to come out of the reveal of their history together.
  • There's a possibility that they're setting up Beverly to take up the Clarice Starling mantle, should the show progress to a Silence of the Lambs-y season without acquiring the rights to the character from MGM. And if that were to be the case, would that be a positive or negative development for the show as a whole?
  • There's a huge Harry Potter and Buffy digression. It's ridiculous. 
  • So Hannibal is going around one-upping the Killers of the Week up in this piece, and while that seems like a pretty major digression from last season, there are some lingering doubts about the Copycat Killer that we bring up here and discuss to see if we can parse out Hannibal's motives for killing James Grey, aside from "it's fun."
  • Some people apparently really don't like Jack Crawford. We're certainly frustrated as hell with him  sometimes, but we don't hate the guy. We take a bit of a peek into where we think that impulse might come from.
  • I baked a quiche for dinner and ate way, way, way too much of it and now I feel gross. That has nothing to do with the podcast, listeners, I'm attempting to build a rapport here. SEE HANNIBAL I CAN PEOPLE TOO.
  • Links:
  • Jumping right into highlights from Ian's timestamps, because he's got some interesting points in there. And now that I've written that, I'm regretting it because I remember what the first timestamp was:
    • 0:06 - 0:19 - The podcast’s taint (‘cause ‘tain’t the opening and ‘tain’t the podcast)
  • Goddammit. Here are the rest:
    •  1:18 - I had to take a moment and think about how enthusiastic my “Hello” was.
  • It is really enthusiastic, isn't it? Okay, I'm done interrupting. That was the last one, I promise:
    • 15:02 - I wanted to bring this up during the Bedelia/Hannibal conversation, but didn’t manage to: We do know that originally, Bedelia was written for an older woman--specifically, Bryan Fuller said he wanted Angela Lansbury (they mentioned this on the Anglo-Filles episode where they discussed Hannibal with Cleo). Then when they got Gillian Anderson, he realized he had to rewrite the character for a younger actress, and that’s where the attack backstory came from--he needed a reason for why a younger psychiatrist would have gone into retirement so early. That, I think, is where some of the shakiness with the Hannibal/Bedelia plot comes from, but again, I completely trust that the writers know where they’re going with it, and that the reveal will be awesome. On the other hand, we don’t know how far into writing season 1 they were when they knew the part would be played by a younger actress, so...who knows?
    • 24:33 - Dude, with the number of times I’ve dropped Animorphs into discussion on this podcast, I think it’s okay if you discuss things in terms of Harry Potter. :)
    • 27:50 - OKAY OKAY OKAY I REMEMBER NOW. Beverly says something like, “I can’t get my head off this case, Will--it’s getting in the way of accomplishing the other things I’ve been tasked to do”--one of those other things being her “new” investigation of the Copycat Killer case after hearing Will’s plea that she ignore all of the evidence against him. And then when she asks why the guy who killed James Grey took his leg, Will makes the comment, “Could have been taking a trophy,” which, as I mentioned, is supposed to be a keyword for Beverly to latch onto and realize it’s connected to the Chesapeake Ripper--the guy who takes organs from his victims as trophies.
    • 43:30 - “Economy of character.” You’re looking for “economy of character,” Ian. WHY DOESN’T ME SPEAK GOOD.
    • 46:10 - I don’t know what you were referencing with the “Not the way you’re thinking, gross, listeners,” but perhaps I don’t want to know.
    • 47:50 - Is “damn the floodgates” a phrase? Or am I crossing two different phrases?
  • It's totally not a phrase, which is why it's now the episode title. Ian's mixing "open the floodgates" and "damn the torpedos" together. Kinda sounds like it could be an idiom, though, doesn't it? And it doesn't count as interruption if it's at the end, right? Either way, I'm not a man who keeps my promises. You know that now, listeners, that makes us closer.
  • Intro: "This is My Design" - original song, music by Ian. More on this as it develops.
  • Outro: "Counting Blue Cars" - Dishwalla | YouTube | iTunes |
(Header image taken from

Wednesday, March 5, 2014

031: Hannibal 2x01 "Kaiseki" - Gone Fishin'

(I want this image to be a painting I can put on my wall.)

SPOILERS UP TO (and including) HANNIBAL 2x01 (as well as mild spoilers for 2x02)

In this episode:
  • Hannibal is BACK! Let the mental distress commence!
  • We both have been dealing with the bane of our existences, Windows 8, so please bear with us as we work out the audio issues we seem to be having. At least this time the recorder didn't eat up anyone's words.
  • Discussion of Hannibal 2x01 "Kaiseki," Hannibal and Jack's BRUTAL fight scene, the fallout of the events from last season's brain-liquifying season finale, the introduction of Cynthia Nixon's character Kade Prurnell, Will imprisoned, Bedelia in fuck shit i messed up levels of danger, and Hannibal framing Will by AHHHH WHY IS THE SOUNDTRACK ATTACKING OUR EARS.
  • Ian brings up a few things he heard on the Nerdist Writers Panel episode with Bryan Fuller, where Fuller had quite a few interesting things to say about season 2 without giving TOO much away.
  • Based on Fuller's comment that this season will echo Silence of the Lambs in a lot of ways, we speculate about how Mads Mikkelsen's performance will differ from Anthony Hopkins' if/WHEN (please be "when") they reach season 5 and tell the SotL storyline.
  • The Ravenstag is still around! Yay!
  • Links:
  • There's a lot of stuff we could've talked about this episode that we didn't end up talking about (Alana and the dogs, Jack and Winston--mostly stuff with the dogs, I guess), so if there's anything in particular you'd like us to pick up, definitely comment, shoot us an email, or contact us on Tumblr/Twitter/Facebook.
  • There's a bunch of stuff I said I would link to. I will attempt to do so when I've had the chance to give the episode a second listen.
  • Highlights from Fio's timestamps:
    • 15:18 - If you could clean up what I was trying to say about the bullroarer here, you’re a saint
    • 24:30 - I’m clearly trying to say “make light of” here, why the fuck couldn’t I come up with “make light of?” 
  • "This is My Design" - original song, music & lyrics by Ian. More on this as it develops.
(Screencap from